Ohm Acoustics Walsh F-5015 speakers
jedinite2410-08-2012 9:27am
Hi everyone
I too received the msg stating that Ohm Acoustics in Brooklyn is having a Columbus Day sale. In the message there was a mention of the new Ohm F-5015 speakers. Upon reviewing the site there was no mention of the F-5015 speakers. I then saw in the forum a couple of members inquiring about these speakers in the main Ohm Walsh thread. I figured for these new speakers they deserved a thread of their own.
Well what do you think these F-5015 speakers are? My guess is that these are the latest generation of new drivers/speakers to replace the original large Ohm Walsh F drivers. I’m thinking these speakers will be enormous and sound awesome.
Any thoughts/comments are more than welcome? If you get in touch with John Strohbeen about the F-5015 speakers feel free to post your findings.
Thanks
mapman10-08-2012 7:52pm
Probably some form of 5000 drivers in refurbed OHM F cabinets. The $9000 + price would indicate something more than that, which is the largest driver in some of the largest cabinets. Maybe an additional 15” sub woofer or two.
I have OHM F5 speakers (see my system pics) which are the prior generation 5 series 3 drivers in refurbed OHM F cabinets. Those listed for $5500 ($500 less than new Walsh 5 series 3 speakers) and I acquired those during a similar sale a few years back.
I suppose only John Strohbeen knows what they are for sure. I doubt they are any major new revision or style of Walsh driver though. John has stated thecurrent X000 series is evolutionary not revolutionary sounding.
jedinite24 OP 10-09-2012 9:48am
Thanks for chiming in Mapman. I haven’t called John Strohbeen about these because I didn’t want to waste his time during the Ohm sale. I’m not in the market for the F-5015 but was just curious. Hopefully more info comes out soon.
spacer 11-04-2012 11:36pm
I have a pair at home for trial and will let you know my conclusions if you are interested in hearing them. My own speakers are upgraded ohm fs, which are the best speakers I’ve heard so far. I’m hoping the new fs will surpass my old ones. And after a week of playing with them, it looks like it is possible they will.
jedinite24 OP 11-05-2012 9:36am
Hi Spacer
Definitely share with us your thoughts on the F-5015s. I’m not in the market for them yet but I’m sure lots of members here will be interested as the Ohm Fs have a great following in general.
spacer 11-05-2012 11:57pm
I listen to these two or three hours every day. I just found the right location in my 600 sf room today. I had been close for a few days but I think I finally got it right today. I’ve listened to a few Bach cello suites and I was quite impressed by the speed and depth of the 15 inch woofer. Frankly, I never heard a recorded cello sound as good as the one I heard this evening.
So far so good.
mapman 11-06-2012 10:12am
I see John posted some more info on the F 5015s on the OHM website but still no pictures.
blueranger 11-07-2012 3:14am
John sent me an email and said they can produce some scary bass down to 16 hz. Also he said they were the loudest with 15 inch extreme excursion subwoofers powered by 500 watt amps take care of frequencies under80 hz. I almost got a pair but already had the 5000’s and with 600 watt bryston it’s loud enough. Anything more and my TT would not take the high pressure levels that the 5015 would generate!
blueranger 11-07-2012 8:30am
I have an Ohm 5000 and almost upgraded to the 5015 but thought I had enough volume with my 600 watt Bryston amp. The 5015s are impressive with bass down to 16 hz!!!!!! John used the word scary to describe it. 15” extreme excursion subwoofers with 500 war amp built inside that drives all the frequencies under 80 hz.. If I had got those then I’d have to place them far away from turntable because of feedback at extreme volumes. Plus falling plaster, irate neighbors, accelerated hearing loss. But what fun!!!!!
mapman 11-07-2012 9:14am
Gotta be very heavy! My f5 series 3 are already but are on castors, which really helps with tweaking placement and moving when needed.
mapman 11-07-2012 9:24am
Maybe these are game changers for those looking to spend $10K+ on new speakers? Could they set a new bar perhaps given the scope of the design and the use of refurbished OHM F cabinets to keep costs down?
These are by far the most expensive OHMs ever. Lots of bang for the buck though. The old OHM Is were a similar attempt perhaps to take things to a new level all within in a single speaker cabinet.
mapman 11-07-2012 3:22pm
One could always add their own separate powered subwoofers if desired.
I wonder if the same 4 3-way level adjustment switches are provided for the 5015s? One on my 5s is for room size which equates to low bass levels. Or are more sophisticated level adjustment controls typical of larger higher end powered subs needed or used?
It would be nice to have everything integrated into a single cabinet on casters. Those F cabinets are quite heavy and bulky to start with.
Also I wonder if the 5015s are bottom ported still like most other OHM Walsh CLS models?
spacer 11-07-2012 11:04pm
Sure they are powerful, but I now start to believe that they are also capable of generating the most subtle nuances at all frequency levels. I just listened to the fabulous Herbaliser’s Session One album, and all the density of the rich arrangements was there and very impressive. I then listened to the dire straights On every street, where all the rhythmic arrangements were evermore present without taking anything from the very live sound of the master guitar player.
I will go into deep bass music tomorrow or this weekend and will let you know how it goes.
For those who wonder what system i use :
Oracle mark I’ve turntable
Mark Levinson 436 mono blocks
Accuphase c-280v preamp
3d lab millennium mark 3 dac
mapman 11-08-2012 9:40am
“Sure they are powerful, but I now start to believe that they are also capable of generating the most subtle nuances at all frequency levels.”
That’s an attribute I would attribute to my F5 series 3 models as well, so no surprise to me there with the newer and even more beefed up 5015s.
blueranger 11-12-2012 12:56pm
I too had just traded my ohm Is in for the 5000s. They were excellent speakers. Great for rock and dynamic with enough power.the 5000s are smother through the whole audio spectrum especially the vocals which are very real.. The Is did have a forward midrange .
mapman 11-13-2012 9:51am
Most older conventional box OHMs from the Marty Gersten/ pre-John Strohbeen era had more forward mid range as I recall. I still have my OHM Ls though I’ve refurbed them a bit and same still holds true there.
spacer 11-15-2012 11:06pm
I know many good speakers owners will say that, but the question is : can a speaker handle real deep bass (like for example in the album “The last resort” from Trentmoller or in the last Kangding Ray album “Pruit Igoe”)so well that all the high and mid frequencies are still as smooth and present as if there were no bass, with no degradation whatsoever.
I have tested the new Fs and they can acheive this as well as they can reproduce a piano, cello or violon solo in a really emotional way.
The last test I will perform is compare them to my old refurbished Fs (the best speakers I’ve heared so far), in my new home (600 sq f room). The competition is tough, but I think the new Fs can actually come out on top.
mapman 11-16-2012 12:17pm
I’m anxious to hear the results of the F versus F test! :^)
honeybee2012 11-16-2012 4:09pm
Newbie question here. Do I understand that EACH 5015 has a 500W Amp inside the speaker? If true, what kind of Amp? If I have a 100WPC amp and I hook up the speaker leads to the 5015 what happens? I do not understand connecting up an amp to an amp. Excuse my lack of knowledge.
blueranger 11-16-2012 7:10pm
Me too. I’ve researched the ohm Fs online and I keep reading there a legend.
spacer 11-17-2012 12:57am
I’ll start testing Sunday. One of the question I have is this: the new 15” woofer can go very low, we already know that, but it is not only a question of going low it is a question of also doing it right; since the 15” has a 500 w/c amp, I’m wondering if this amp will produce a bass of a quality equal or superior than that on the old Fs 12” with my mark Levinson 436.
Also, the sound dispersion of the old Fs is unique and addictive, I wonder if the new Fs will offer a similar stage or if it will be a more central stage.
I’ll have some suggestions a to the answers to these questions by the end of next week.
mapman 11-17-2012 12:49pm
Spacer,
Given original Fs are full omni and full range and new OHMs generally produce lower levels in wall facing directions, and use a more directional tweeter above 7khz or so, I am guessing that each may sound best with somewhat different placement in the room relative to walls and listening location(s).
spacer 11-17-2012 10:59pm
Mapman,
You are probably right. I know where to place the new ones in my new room, but have not yet tried the old ones. The will probably have to be spotted differently than the new Fs.
spacer 11-17-2012 11:02pm
Your amp goes to the 5000 cone, which takes care of frequencies above 80 hertzs, and the built in 500 w amp takes charge of frequencies from 16 to 80 hertzs with its 15” subwoofer.
spacer 11-17-2012 11:05pm
They are in fact incredible. Totally different from all the other speakers you have heard before.
spacer 11-21-2012 10:27pm
Im going to keep the new ohm Fs. Of course they sound different from the old ones, but the new ohm f sound is fascinating in the sense that they offer a new approach in the sound dispersion, an aspect which was central in the appreciation of the initial ohm f.
The new f sounds extremely good with all kinds of music, which is a exploit by itself. The deep bass is not only as tight as can be but it show new textures in records I thought I knew by hart, thanks to the 15 inch woofer.
The f5000 is just incredible offering a extremely detailed and musical performance, which is perfectly matched with the 15 inch woofer capabilities.
I’d never tought if do that, but I’m going to bring my old Fs to John this week end and I must admit it is not going to be easy letting them go.
But hey, we got to follow progress and the new Fs represent progress IMHO from the old ones.
mapman 11-22-2012 11:25am
Spacer, what is the rest of your system?
spacer 11-22-2012 11:53pm
Oracle Mk IV turntable - ortofon cadenza red - Rega rb900
3Dlab dac millennium Mk 3
Accuphase c280v preamp
Mark Levinson 436 mono blocks amps
Audioquest Colorado xlr
mapman11-23-2012 12:26pm
That’s quite a setup, even for a sizable room!
rclang 12-12-2012 5:48pm
I think pictures would be great for the legions of Ohm fans, especially Ohm F adherents. But the main question remains is how does the Ohm F 5015 sound? I’m especially curious as an Ohm F owner. How is its “presentation” compared to the classic F? Is it more like the Walsh 5 class with a more powerful low end? Or does it up the ante throughout the frequency range for resolution (especially) as well as for dynamic range?
Beyond all that is the Ohm F 5015 merely a prototype? It has been since Columbus Day since it was “announced”. Yet, as far as I know, there have been neither hide nor hair of its existence since that time. Certainly there has been nothing tangible. *Nothing* on the website. That is awfully strange.
spacer 12-13-2012 11:46pm
Hi rclang
The ohm f-5015 has the most powerful low end I’ve heard, but it not only powerful it is also extremely faithful to the sounds recorded. Weather it is the double bass in Beethoven 5th by Karajan in 1962 or the more recent extreme bass of kangding ray album, or a duke Ellington big band recording, the bass is always perfectly fitted with the rest, and the rest is so dynamic compared to the old f that IMO ohm has really made a giant leap in sound reproduction, miles ahead of any other brand of speakers.
Moreover, I know I can locate it better in my room and regime the adjustments the 5000 offers.
I have a pair of ohm, but I do not listen to it anymore since I got these marvelous new musical boxes.
rclang12-17-2012 2:52am
Spacer
I have no doubt that the Walsh 5000 generation of Ohm speakers is a stellar performer. It’s just that as an Ohm F owner (I retired them many years ago, although I did set them up out of curiosity a few years ago) the “F” is far more about the pure Walsh driver…not the cabinet. And while my current speakers (like the 5000) are far superior to the F’s in almost all meaningful ways there are some attributes the F brought to the table that are not easily matched (in my experience) or perhaps not even measurable, let alone exceeded, such as coherency/”seamlessness” …..and that vaunted soundstage that is as close to live that I can recall (outside of a well executed/high quality 5.0 music system). These are singular attributes of a true unfettered omni directional single driver. Indeed, if it weren’t for it’s well documented limitations of dynamic range/deep bass I could probably happily live with them today.
For me the “F” model has a certain “reverence” attached to it. So, when I got the Columbus sale email from Ohm Speakers that the “F” name had been resurrected I was naturally excited and was hoping that Ohm had figured out a way to incorporate a modern version of the pure Walsh driver most likely with a sub woofer (such as German Physiks, or Huff) but no seperate tweeter. And for only $10,000!!!
So, yes even though the Walsh 5000 is a great speaker I was disappointed to learn that the “F” designation was due solely only to the inclusion of the Ohm F cabinet and not an improved implementation of the Walsh driver technology over the 5000 series. In my opinion Ohms new flagship should be called the Walsh 5015 I assume the subwoofer is a 15” driver). For me the “F” designation is simply “not right”.
mapman 12-17-2012 9:56am
“For me the “F” designation is simply “not right”.”
My opinion is OHM is very consistent. Names of refurbished models (offered for less than equivalent with new cabinets) are based on a combo of original cabinet and new driver names. Hence mine are F5 series 3 and Walsh 2 series 3 for example.
Maybe OHM should retire the F name, like a baseball hall of famer’s # is retired?
Also note that the cabinets come from owners who willingly trade in their originals towards new models for significant discount.
Just trying to paint the entire picture,in the interest of fairness.
From My perspective, I am thrilled to own speakers using modern drivers in refurbished F cabinets. Its the best of both worlds for me. I have no desire to live with the limitations of the originals in this day and age despite the unique attributes of the originals.
rclang 12-17-2012 5:52pm
****Maybe OHM should retire the F name, like a baseball hall of famer’s # is retired?***
Well, I don’t agree with that. But I believe it would have been more “fitting” if the “F” designation would have been saved for a speaker that employed an “F” like Walsh driver, a speaker closer to the original in presentation and implementation. Why re-brand the 5000 with the “F” designation over a cabinet? Otherwise, any and every speaker that Ohm Speakers have produced since the “F” that employ the quasi Walsh technology (non omni variations with a tweeter) could also have the “F” designation. Why now and why with the 5000? It’s about marketing.
Look, this ain’t that big of a deal, not at all. But I and several others I have spoken to find the “F” designation for the 5000 to be misleading, if only benignly so. Like I say this is marketing, no sin in that.
I might add that I and others quickly figured out that the 5015 was employing the 5000 driver and not an unfettered “F” like driver when Ohm Speakers kept this new “F” under wraps. Because Strohbeen knows that an Ohm speaker, especially, that employed an improved, more efficient, F like Walsh driver would generate excitement with significant ripples throughout the entire audio community. If it worked, the new “F”, like the original, would be an emblematic flagship for Ohm speakers and not merely a flagship.
****I have no desire to live with the limitations of the originals in this day and age despite the unique attributes of the originals.***
Absolutely! Indeed, I replaced my “Fs” almost two decades ago (although I still own them). And I’m sure that the 5015 is truly a great decision. The 5000 on down the line are also “unique” in that they employ variations of the Lincoln Walsh invention. And from what I have heard they are all exemplary performers.
P.S. did you employ your orginal “Fs” up until you got the 5015 upgrade? Or did you have them in storage?
spacer 12-17-2012 11:49pm
Well, i find these last posts extremely interesting. To answer the question: I have several pairs of speakers and I use them all occasionally. The ohm f is the one however I prefer because its sound is unique and still give me the most pleasure on many recordings.
I’m still testing the F-5015 and have yet to make a definitive judgement about it, but I beleive that the F is not only there for marketing purposes. From what I heard so far, the frequency balance is near perfect (I say near because nothing is perfect), like it was in the Fs. Moreover, the general impression of the sound and music is for me in the same family as the original Fs. The pleasure I find listening to the new Fs finds its source in the similar qualities : live like mids, supreme highs, yet not invading and incredibly smooth, bass frequencies which, like it was the case with the Fs, are always at their place, in perfect rhythm with the rest, in perfect rutic and tonal harmony.
Also, as is the case with anyone listening to the old Fs for the first time, it takes time to adapt your ear to the new Fs sound because as it was the case with the old Fs, it is different fr anything you’ be heated before, at least it is for me.
I’m still testing and will be looking at the mid bass when my amp makes it back home, against my other speakers (equipped with one of the best woofers in the world, the Scanspeak 10” paper woofer.
I will have to be very careful in my assessment because as I said the music presentation if the new Fs is so different, with, amongst other things, the 15” expanding the space between instrument and sounds so vastly, that I will have to live with it a while to make myself a definite idea.
rclang 12-20-2012 3:56am
Spacer and Mapman thank you so much for your enlightened responses.
Since my following of Ohm speaker development has been spotty over recent years I have a couple of fundamental questions.
I believe (don’t know for sure) the W5000/W4000 series are 2 way designs with the Walsh driver supplemented with a tweeter that kicks in at around 12,000 Hz. I suspect that the crossover is of a first order design although perhaps you can offer some clarification on that.
The W5015, I believe is a 3 way design with tweeter, Walsh driver, and 15 inch built in amplified sub woofer that crosses over at 80 Hz. Is the cabinet sealed, ported, or some other design?
Also, the inference seems to be that the 5015 is audibly smoother in the upper frequencies than the 5000/4000 series. This suggests that there have been improvements/changes over the 5000 driver which go beyond just the addition of that awesome subwoofer. Is it known what these changes may be? Or could it be that that the Walsh drive does not have to carry as heavy a workload (because of the subwoofer) in the 5015 that it peforms better.
mapman 12-20-2012 9:38am
“I believe (don’t know for sure) the W5000/W4000 series are 2 way designs with the Walsh driver supplemented with a tweeter that kicks in at around 12,000 Hz. I suspect that the crossover is of a first order design although perhaps you can offer some clarification on that.”
Tweeter kicks in at ~ 7khz as I understand it. Not sure about crossover type.
“The W5015, I believe is a 3 way design with tweeter, Walsh driver, and 15 inch built in amplified sub woofer that crosses over at 80 Hz. Is the cabinet sealed, ported, or some other design? “
Yes, 3 way as described. Not sure about crossover point or controls ie similarly adjustable or not to an outboard sub or more fixed. Spacer might know or I would have to study the pics of teh controls he provided further to venture a guess.
I suspect the cabinet is sealed and not ported like other Walsh CLS designs, in that sub would relinquish benefits of a portm but not certain. Spacer would know. If not ported, that would be a first in the Walsh CLS line I believe and more like original OHM F.
“Also, the inference seems to be that the 5015 is audibly smoother in the upper frequencies than the 5000/4000 series. This suggests that there have been improvements/changes over the 5000 driver which go beyond just the addition of that awesome subwoofer. Is it known what these changes may be? Or could it be that that the Walsh drive does not have to carry as heavy a workload (because of the subwoofer) in the 5015 that it peforms better.”
My understanding is it is a standard configuration 5000 driver used based on the descriptions I have read, but John Strohbeen might be the only one to know for sure. Also, I believe he has indicated it is currently a prototype, so details could change.
One of the benefits IMHO of the standard 2-way Walsh CLS driver (all generations) is that the Walsh driver does most of the work and CLS design seems to minimize demand on the tweeter. This helps account for the Walsh CLSs ability to go very loud seemingly with little or no compression (with enough power behind them), breakup or distortion, that I have observed both with originals from the 80’s and the newer descendants.
Adding powered subs to any speaker otherwise pretty much always translates to further lowering the demand on the rest. German Physiks uses this approach with their DDD Walsh driver. I know other OHM Walsh owners (MartyKL for one)have expressed considerable success using external subs with other OHM Walsh speakers, especially to help enable the OHMs to perform well off of tube amplification.
I use an external powered M&K sub with my Walsh 2 series 3 OHMs running of 180w/ch SS Tube Audio Design 125 Hibachi monoblocks in my large open family room/kitchen area. The sub crossover frequency and level setting is minimal with the OHMS, compared to how set with my other monitor speakers I have used the sub with from time to time.
The sub definitely adds something, but I could probably live without it. THat room is fairly big but not huge and is my second system where I do not do as much critical listening.
spacer 12-23-2012 7:13pm
It is a sealed design. For the rest of your questions, I suggest you contact John via the Ohm site. I’m sure he will be able to answer them.
